New York Collectors Steven Abraham and Lisa Young Set a Goal of “Showing Up”

Lumi Tan One thing I find really special about your approach to collecting is that it’s based on relationship-building—not just with artists, but you consistently give credit to curators or other networks that have influenced you. How do you go about building these relationships?

Lisa Young I think it’s very organic, as with any relationship. Being in New York really helps because you can just go to shows and see the same people and start talking to them. I think we are very intentional, and this was especially so when we started out, because we don’t come from art world backgrounds or families. We’re the first in our families to collect or take a serious interest in art. Coming into the art world as outsiders, when we began collecting in 2017, we set a goal of just showing up—going to a lot of openings and seeing who organized the shows, which gallery represented the artists we were interested in, who were the artists that we liked to see. Just coming at it with an approach of genuine curiosity and appreciation.

Steven Abraham One thing we realized very quickly when we decided to collect contemporary art was the proximity we have to the creators, to the makers themselves. You’re able to tap into their community and it’s a real privilege. When we started collecting artists from the Asian diaspora, it became amplified because we can relate to their stories, to connect to them on a deeper level.

I think collectors and curators are on a similar journey of discovering artists. Steven Abraham

LT It is so rare that any artist, but particularly artists of color, have a connection or way of relating to the people who buy their work. As a second generation Asian American, it’s been meaningful to follow your work through The Here and There Collective (THAT Co.), the online project you created in 2021, to provide a platform and way to connect for Asian-diasporic artists. Did this project grow out of the priorities you were establishing within your collection?

LY Yes, I think there are definitely parallels between the two. The platform came out of our personal collecting journeys and our focus on the Asian diaspora, from having conversations and wanting to connect. We often cite ARTNOIR as a key mentor. I think we wanted to find that for ourselves and also just educate ourselves because we knew we wanted to grow our collection, and that this was our focus. So, we were wondering who was out there. But we also wanted to then share our discoveries with other people, and encourage them to look at the artists we had found. Even within the artist community itself, because we did a lot of studio visits, we realized we could help artists connect to other artists, gallerists or curators and create a community.

THAT Co. started during the pandemic, so obviously, it was done virtually, but it’s been nice to see how, since then, we have done more face-to-face community-building. We started a residency program as well to try to create more physical spaces that manifest in the same way.

SA The Here and There grew as we grew as collectors. Claire Kim has come on board as our director of curatorial affairs. I feel a certain kinship with curators because I think collectors and curators are on a similar journey of discovering artists. Of course, curators also have the academic background which allows them to contextualize the artists’ practices.

LY Our collecting philosophy is less of a one-sided transaction. We think about it more in terms of stewardship and as bi-directional, especially because our collection is primarily emerging to early- and mid-career artists. I almost see a peership with a lot of the artists that we have collected because in a way we’re all trying to figure out the art world. A lot of our conversations are about how to work it out together. It speaks to the strength of an ecosystem.

SA With our residency, we actually ask the artists what they are hoping to achieve and we tailor our support accordingly.

LT To zoom way out, I wanted to ask about the term “Asian American” and the current discussion around how it can’t really mean anything because the Asian diaspora is so huge and all-encompassing. How does that apply to your perspective on collecting? Do you set boundaries with who or what you’re looking at or where you’re traveling? I know that female representation is really important to you. Does New York, as your homebase, play a significant role as well?

SA I don’t think we actually had an intentional conversation around this, but I’ve never felt that we have to collect from different regions Usually it’s a little bit more natural, a little bit more organic. For instance, I’m originally from Indonesia, so in the back of my mind, I’m always interested in Southeast Asian artists. During the pandemic, there was a resurgence of the Indonesian art scene with a lot of conversations online about all the different types of artists and artist communities there. For me, it was a natural progression to get to know more about the scene in Indonesia and the surrounding region, its collectors and institutions.

Then a lot of our friends are from many different diasporas—the Chinese or East Asian diasporas, but also the South Asian diaspora. Whenever there is talk of Asian art the focus tends to lean towards the  East Asian perspective, so there is a conversation to be had around the visibility of the broader Asian diaspora too.

LY We aren’t looking at a map and saying, “Only from here.” It is rooted in the work, and how we connect to it, and that naturally lends itself to our personal stories as well. Like Steven’s upbringing in Asia, and the fact that his first language was that of his ethnic heritage. Whereas I was born and raised in New York and my primary language has always been English.

I think the conversations with the artworks in our collection and how we respond to them is a reflection also of our own experiences of what it means to be Asian or Asian American. For Steven, it’s very different than it is for me. I read a work differently to him because of how, as people, we identify within that community. I don’t think there’s necessarily a rubric for our collection, but the work must be something that we resonate with, and provides us with more questions than answers.

LT That’s what I always say about the artists that I want to work with! If after a studio visit, I leave with more questions than answers then I know I want to pursue a commission or something that’s very open-ended with them. I want to go on that process  together and not know what the outcome will be. Do you feel like that in terms of the future of your own collection and THAT Co.? Are you responding to the artists’ developing needs and think that it’ll take the shape of how these artists progress in their careers and the relationships that you will continue to build with them?

I am wondering how we can challenge ourselves as appreciators of art and what we live with. Lisa Young

SA In the beginning with THAT Co., we tried to make things as inclusive as possible. We didn’t want to just build an audience, we wanted to build a community. And with our residency, we always start by asking our artists, what their career goals are and build our program from there.

LY I think it’s less about who we specifically want represented in our collection in the next five to ten years and more about expanding the question of what it means to be a collector? Are there other forms of patronage? Maybe not something new but something more like old-school patronage: supporting an artist in their career and not just the work on a one-off basis. I think that is also a little bit at the root of The Here and There. It’s wonderful we have been able to collect a lot of works that we love to live with, but what else can we do? That’s more conceptually how I think about pushing our collection and us as collectors.

But also a little bit more practically, I am wondering how we can challenge ourselves as appreciators of art and what we live with. Personally, I would love for us to collect more video art. Or go towards work that is a little bit more challenging in terms of content.

SA Last year, The Here and There had a series of performances at Spring Hill Arts Gathering. It was such a meaningful experience. There were beautiful performances by a lot of artists that we knew of but I didn’t really know that area of their practice, so it was full of wonderful surprises. This is something we want to keep on building. I’m also interested in having more conversations about collecting and supporting artists. Last year we collaborated with ARTNOIR for a panel talk in LA during Frieze Week about representation. It was a really fruitful, very engaging, conversation that considered how we can evolve into being allies or advocates for marginalized groups. And that led to the recent conversation at the Hammer Museum, where we brought together a lot of artists and thought leaders from different diasporas—Charles Gaines, Kris Kuramitsu, Tala Madani and Harry Gamboa Jr. among others. I’m curious about how we can evolve the conversation about Asian American artists’ representation and identity, and not be talking about the same things in another five or ten years from now.

LY I’m very curious to think about the ecosystem as a whole and the expansion of what it means to be a collector within that, but then also what are the other roles? How can we all consider the future together?

SA At the essence of it, with THAT Co. we’re trying to create a very accessible archive for artists in our diaspora. Secondly, we are looking at how we can support younger artists to really propel their early careers and help create their first documentation. At the end of the day, we want to try to connect people and it is so rewarding to hear of people using our archive to curate shows or give talks, or about relationships that have been formed as a result of the platform. Community is so important—to provide a sounding board, to have real give and take and to keep on evolving.

This article first appeared in Frieze Week New York 2024 under the title “Figuring It Out Together.”

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^{Main image: Pauline Shaw, cut the sky, 2022; Umber Majeed, We Buy Asians, 2015. Photograph: Ryan Lowry}